Have you ever thought you met the right person only to find out they weren't who you thought they were?
International dating coach, Lily Walford shares her story about toxic relationships, unexpected breakups, and stalking - and how a meeting with a leading military and intelligence behavior expert helped her finally figure out why she'd previously been able to crack the code on finding the right person.
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An international dating coach who has been focused on how busy professionals can date safely and successfully using CIA level behavioural psychology, profiling and body language so that her clients can enjoy an undeniable love that lasts.
The right habits put you in control of your health, relationships, mindset, and more. But most people lack the tools to stick with those habits long enough to see results that is about to change. Welcome to the unshakable habits podcast with your host, habit change specialist and speaker Stephen box. Join us each week as experts share their stories, experiences and insights and give you the tools to build unshakable habits so you can live life on your terms. It's time to take your habits from unsustainable to unshakable.
Stephen Box: 0:47
Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of the unshakable habits podcast. I am your host, Stephen box. And today I am joined by Lily Walford, from love with intelligence. So Lily, thanks for joining me today.
Lily Walford: 1:02
Hey, thank you so much for having me.
Stephen Box: 1:06
Now, you have this really interesting approach to dating that we're going to talk about today. And I know that because your approach is so unique, there's a really cool story behind it as well. So we're also going to dive into that. But before we do, I want to just quickly remind the audience about our unshakeable habits framework, because that's the context in which we want to look at your story through so that the audience can then take your story and apply it back to their own life. So it's a three part process. The first is you need a vision, vision are different than goals, goals are always about a specific outcome. Visions are about behaviors, because they're about who we actually want to become what we want our life to look like. Now, in order to make that vision come true, you're going to need to develop some skills, and that is the second part of the framework. And some of those skills you might already have might just be a matter of learning to utilize them better. Some you might have to create. And if you have to create them, then that goes to step three, which is all about taking regular, repeated actions to build those skills and make them a reality. Though, Lily, why don't you start by telling us a little bit about this approach that you have to dating because it really is unique?
Lily Walford: 2:29
Yeah, so long story short, the way that we work at love with intelligence is we use a military grade psychology in order to help people to read people, so that they're able to make a informed decision on the partners that they meet, and that they're able to have a compatible relationship that lasts. So through this approach, we can profile someone in six minutes or less. And also read someone's body language, better polygraph machine. So we can see if someone's telling the truth, or telling a lie. So this way, you can create relationships from the truth.
Stephen Box: 3:09
Now, I was looking on your website, and you talk about how you really wanted to give people something that wasn't all about the mind games and manipulation that a lot of the dating sites are really about. And you just kind of hit on that a little bit talking about you want to give people a way to identify, you know, what's actually happening the truth. One of the things that was interesting to me, and they're always how you talked about how, by being able to read people and profile them and actually realize, is this person being honest, are they being authentic with you, it allows you to build trust, actually faster than the old fashioned way of dating.
Lily Walford: 3:52
Exactly, and I think this is so important, because when we go into dating, and we want to put the you know, we want to make the best first impression possible. So what we end up having is almost like this person who's wearing this mask of the best impression, we've got this person wearing this mask, and these two masks are interacting versus the two people behind them. So a big part of this process is allowing people to remove the mask that they're actually interacting from who they are with the person that you know the other person is. So it allows you to build that authentic and genuine connection really quickly versus you know, you've we've all seen those things I've say these 10 things to make them fall in love with you or don't text them back straightaway and all these awful strategies that are actually there that break down true genuine and honest connection.
Stephen Box: 4:48
Yes, you you coming from this particular background me coming from the health industry. We both know all about bad tactics.
Lily Walford: 4:58
Oh, Do people wonder why they don't work?
Stephen Box: 5:06
I don't understand why I can't lose weight and why I can't be happy in a relationship. I just don't get it
Lily Walford: 5:15
from trying to survive on 50 calories and saying the script constantly of Yeah, I think actually read this one online Kev, I think you're on YouTube. I always get curious. I see these ads. And it was like, Oh, this you know, all guys need to hear this one thing to make them fallen off within as well go and I'll bite was the same. And it was something really gimmicky. Like, I believe in you. I'm thinking, Are you kidding me? Right? Imagine people on a date just turn around and go. I believe in you. And then instantly they fall in love. And that's it happily ever after. Wow, yeah. Something needs to shift something needs to change for the dating industry.
Stephen Box: 6:02
Is suddenly pulled out of a Hallmark Christmas movie or something. It's
Lily Walford: 6:07
exactly that isn't it? You can imagine that sort of cringy like scene at the end. I believe in you and they live happily ever after.
Stephen Box: 6:15
But I just I just offended like everybody out there who watches Hallmark movies, they're just they turn the podcast off. Now they're done with me.
Lily Walford: 6:26
You never know, because I've actually just, you know, written the new Hallmark movie for Christmas. We're nearly at Christmas now.
Stephen Box: 6:32
Yeah, you know, so who knows? Right? Who knows? So I have to know what, what happened? Like, what is your story that led you to this because most people that I've talked to and I've actually interviewed several people who are relationship experts, they've had some kind of, you know, trauma or they've had some bad relationship they've gone through. But you're the first person that has like, gone out and said, You know what, I'm going to learn military great stuff here to actually learn how to get this right. So what what is your story that actually led to you getting there?
Lily Walford: 7:18
Yeah, you know, the funny thing is didn't quite grow up saying okay, you know, when I grow up, I'm going to become this military grade psychology expert in relationship and dating. So back when, gosh, probably 10 years ago now I actually found myself in a very highly narcissistic borderline psychopathic relationship. And this guy was a police officer and gosh, this this relationship was just horrendous I found out I was cheated on there was all these different things like being greeted, it almost got physically violent. After that relationship ended I was stopped for five years and after the girlfriends that he met after me, he would take all three of them down like obviously separately and that travel 150 miles to recreate the pictures that we had taken together. And that when we were in our relationship, so quite an intense relationship, just to say the least. And it got me thinking you know, like, what is it that creates something that's actually healthy what creates a healthy loving relationship that lasts and from that relationship ended up going like normal people do into another, you know, narcissistic or toxic relationship. And this pattern just kept on playing out. And I thought at one stage that I cracked the code, I was in a I thought I was in a fantastic relationship. I lived in a beautiful, you know, four bedroom detached home and a beautiful part of the city in England, and two brand new Mercedes on the drive. We both worked in corporate as well. So he was a sales director. I was a group accountant for Fortune 500 companies. So we were doing really, really well. And then one weekend, though, got that awful text as I was coming home from work, so we need to talk. Oh, gosh, like within one weekend that was there it was job gone. It was relationship God had to move house kept the car, which is great. It got me thinking okay, what is it again, you know, that creates a healthy loving relationship. So I went on a bit of a soul searching journey. And within a one year I became an NLP Master Practitioner trainer. A hypnotherapist, a life coach. public speaker started up a business or milestones working full time. I did all that within one year. And I think it got to the end. Thank you and I was still single I was dating. And my dating life was still absolutely freaking awful. You know, even after all this hard work on self love and confidence, and all these different things, and I was still attracting people who weren't right, for whatever reason. And it got to this point where I was on dating site, and messages person a couple of times, you kind of get that vibe, where it's like, oh, yes, it's not gonna work. So you kind of end the conversation politely. And the next day or start message me again, at four o'clock, I'm not going to bother messaging them, you know, stop polite to leave them on or to say goodbye, or wherever it might be. And the following day, after that, I suddenly got 12, pink roses delivered to my house. Now, this person only had my first name and my profile picture. And they had somehow just from that information, found my address. Now, as I said before, I was previously stopped for five years. So when this happened, I completely freaked out and thinking, Oh, my gosh, I don't want to be stopped for another five years, this person knows where I live. This is not a good situation to be in, and self worth. And self confidence isn't going to save me in this scenario. And back during that time, one of my friends was doing some work with a guy called Chase, who's now Chase. He's a world leader in behavioral profiling. He's got $30 million worth of government backed research. So he trained, trained military operatives, about two and a half 1000 military operatives, to like Jason Bourne, James Bond, that kind of level. So sent a load of these screenshots, you know, the profile of the messages. So they got a real good feel of like, what was actually happening, what this person, you know who this person was, and all these different things. And within a few moments, I've got a message back from from Chase, and my friend who is a trainer for Chase, and with basically a list of steps of how to get this person to stop wanting to stalk me and send me stuff and contact me. And I was amazed, because through that I didn't have to be rude. I was polite, I didn't have to be nasty or anything like that. And within a few messages, this person completely left me alone. And it made me realize, like, oh, my gosh, I need this for my clients, I need this, I need to know this in order to keep people safe. So I ended up going on a course with with Chase. And it was incredible. We learned how to profile people within six minutes or less, we learned body language, we learn how to really connect with someone get someone to really show their true self. And it was all these amazing things that that I was just completely blown away by. And at the end of the course home sort of speaking to chase, and we ended up partnering up in business. So we actually could bring in all this military grade psychology into love with intelligence. So we could teach people how to profile teacher, I mean, I teach them how to learn how to read body language, so they could actually meet someone and see the truth straightaway. And, you know, fast forward two years, you know, we we are now seeing people enter relationships within three months of working together, which is just freaking amazing. So people who've been in previously narcissistic relationships, going into loving relationships and building them up, we've created a narcissist core. So identifying and disarming analysis course, we've helped people go through divorces protect their children, all these different things from being able to share this information with people to help them deal with these dangerous personality types and also how to heal, and also this information to help people meet the wall. So it's been quite a journey.
Stephen Box: 14:01
I have to say, that actually sounds like really scary, I can only imagine what that would be like, like, this person, like you said, literally just has your first name, not even your last name, just your first name and a profile picture and they're able to find out your address. You know, and especially having gone through that situation before I can definitely imagine just how bad that must have been. And why that would have promoted you to say like, you know what, let me go and learn this stuff and figure out what to do here. So
Lily Walford: 14:34
yeah, cuz it was it was interesting because when you're dealing Yeah, it's it's one of those we end up doing more for other people, you know, and we always do more for other people than we do for ourselves. And for me, it was like okay, this is a scary situation to be in for myself. You know, it's not nice suddenly going someone stalking me or sending stuff to my house. But it did really make me think of okay, what would I do if my My clients went through that. And for me, it felt wrong to be able to work with people without knowing how to protect them in those scenarios, because you know, when you've got someone who knows, you know, addresses and things like that, it becomes something so much more dangerous. And I know with those type of personalities, in particular, the worst thing that you can do is block them. And the reason is, is because it creates this game, it creates this cat and mouse game of, okay, I can't contact contact you on here, I'm going to go on Facebook and find you I'm going to go on, you know, find you an email or whatever it might be. And just to prove that they still got power in order to be able to contact you or connect with you.
Stephen Box: 15:49
Yeah, and that's, you know, what most people's first instinct would actually be is to just block them, right, just like, oh, let me just block them, get rid of them. But you're not gonna get rid of them.
Lily Walford: 16:00
Not three that way. I remember having a work colleague, who was proper, creeping us in his 50s. Now as for in my very young 20s. And I have my work number, and he suddenly left the company, goodness, and tried to message me my work phone, sorry, my personal phone. So I blocked that number. And then he tried to message me on LinkedIn go, I saw that you had blocked my number. So I had to block them on LinkedIn, and then made its way before I learned all the behavioral profiling stuff. And then I don't know if you remember, or whether you've got an Android phone or an Apple phone, but on Android, there was this health app called Google s or something S Health or something like that. And it used to count steps. And suddenly, I get this message come through on that, saying, oh, so and so I get the name, so and so's decided to challenge you to 10,000 steps. So it's even going down to the microscopic levels of trying to reach someone just because
Stephen Box: 17:11
it's like, dude, at some point, take the hair, right, like, Yeah,
Lily Walford: 17:17
but the beauty is like with these, with these personality types, so this is very narcissistic behavior. Yeah. And the thing is that most people don't understand with true narcissist, because narcissists become such a buzzword, and then the dating relationship community. But it's a true narcissist. The Empathy part of the brain is actually underdeveloped. So asking them to feel is almost asking them to like a fish to walk or something like that. They end up seeing people as resources, like a pen, I call How do I use this pedal? How do I use a calculator? How do I use this phone? Because I don't fully connect with the person. It's like, okay, what can I get out of this person? How can I benefit from this person, whether it's, you know, a person who's got high status than them, or someone who looks good on their arm, or whether this is someone who's good at giving them compliments, or whether it's someone who's good at, you know, doing chores, or wherever it might be? And they'll learn how to use that person in a way that benefits them.
Stephen Box: 18:18
And, and I would assume that a lot of what you teach people is, in learning to read those situations, you can tell if that's the kind of person that you're dealing with very quickly and know whether to get away from that situation before they really have a chance to latch on to you.
Lily Walford: 18:34
Yeah, yeah. So we deal with a few different scenarios. And without training says obviously, that are where you can identify and quickly get out and get away from that person. Or, if you are in a situation where you've had a child with a narcissist, or you're divorcing a narcissist, or you've got a family member, that's a narcissist. Suddenly, it's not like, oh, I can block you and I can get away from you. And I can completely ignore you. We actually teach people how to communicate with those types of people in a safe way. Because saying no to a narcissist is nearly impossible if you don't know what you're doing.
Stephen Box: 19:18
So speaking of that, and we're gonna jump back into your story here in a second. But I know at the end of the interview here, we are going to have a giveaway for people. And you're going to talk to people about how to find that one. But that also is going to include seven red flags that you need to be looking out for. So I'm going to have you maybe give us a couple of those at the end. So people have to now stick in for the entire interview just so
Lily Walford: 19:45
juicy, I'm just saying
Stephen Box: 19:47
that's that's me shamelessly using manipulation to get people to stick around to the end. Although it's a really manipulation, if you tell people that's what
Lily Walford: 20:02
It's always the intention of the manipulations for their own good. So it's okay.
Stephen Box: 20:07
Good, you need to hear the entire interview.
Lily Walford: 20:13
Ethical manipulation, there we go.
Stephen Box: 20:17
Make it sound better, I like it. Literally you, you kind of hit us like with this really like shortened version of your stories, I want to kind of dive into it a little bit. So you get this phone call, like, hey, we need to talk. And then all of a sudden, it's like, Alright, now you're broken up, you've lost everything, but you at least got to keep the car, right? And then you and then you kind of dedicate yourself to learning all these different things. And so I'm curious, was there a moment where you started to? Like, blame yourself for these relationships? Or at some point? Did you think they were the other person's fault? And so like, at what point did you kind of come around to saying like, you know what, I need to make some improvements in my life to avoid these situations.
Lily Walford: 21:11
Yeah, great question of I don't think I've ever been asked that before. But it's such an awesome question. Because the truth is back then I, I blame those relationships. It's like, oh, gosh, you know, I showed up, I was brilliant in those relationships, and it's all their fault. It probably wasn't until I started sort of really diving into my journey, and gaining some some serious self awareness. But it's funny, actually, it's different for the different relationships. So the narcissistic relationship that I was first in that relationship, when that ended, I actually blamed a lot of myself, I was actually wondering why was not good enough. There was a time in that relationship where I was like, I need to stay in this relationship to protect people from going through what I've been going through in that relationship, which is a very interesting mindset, because narcissistic relationships have very cult like in the way that they can influence and change beliefs, and also chip away at your identity. So you tend to find some people who go through narcissistic relationships, they come out and they're like, who am I, you know, I lost myself in that relationship is a genuine thing. You know, you can't have those relationships, feeling like you don't know what your emotions are. You can't make simple decisions, you're afraid to talk to people trust people. It's quite messy. And then the the relationship before I started going into the personal development, but realms, yeah, I think a lot of that relationship, I really blamed that ex partner, because I was, I felt so angry and let down. I think that's the interesting part around relationships. There's this trust aspect where we have these expectations of what our lives are going to be like, and the expectations of that partner. And yeah, it was kind of like one of those things where it broke down. So suddenly, and unexpectedly, like that morning, we were talking about planning a holiday and then in the afternoon is suddenly like a breakup, it's like world. But one of the things one of the most potent memories I had of that breakup was clearing out, you know, you do that horrible thing of getting your own stuff, splitting all this stuff up and trying to pack. And I remember sitting on the kitchen floor, and just thinking, like, I just couldn't believe the amount of pain that I was in like, I've never felt pain like it. But it was that moment where it was almost like, I don't care how I'm going to do it. But I'm going to create this life that is absolutely freaking amazing. Even, you know, even I don't know how to create it. This is what I promised myself that I'm going to go ahead and do. You know, it's almost like if I'm going to live this life that I thought was brilliant, I'm going to go ahead and make this even better. And I think I just always have to pinch myself because if I told myself back then that I would be living this life and doing this kind of business and having the amazing relationship that I have now and you know, living in awesome places and all these different, you know, working with someone or partner in business with someone with $30 million worth of research, I wouldn't have believed myself at all. It would have just it was not on my radar. And it was definitely a journey of actually understanding things like healthy relationships and what that actually is and how to individuals need to take accountability and responsibility for the collaboration. Part of that relationship to make it work.
Stephen Box: 25:06
So the thing that's interesting and going back to the framework to me is, we talk about that first step, which is vision, right, and you really just hit on it there, like you talked about how, in that moment, sit down on the kitchen floor, you kind of had this vision for what you want in life to look like. And something has been so cool to me in all the interviews that I've done with people, and we, when we start diving into their story, I see this over and over, that their original vision is usually so small, compared to where they end up. But it's just getting that vision in place, I think sometimes people get so caught up on I have to get this like perfect vision. And I have to know every little step along the way. And don't,
Lily Walford: 25:53
don't quite align the way that we want them to, in the beginning.
Stephen Box: 25:58
Physicians set a course and start moving toward it, right. Like that's, that's kind of what you did, like you had this vision, you started just looking for ways to improve yourself. Because you had this realization of, you know, what, I played some part in this breakup. And I need to look in the mirror and take care of the only thing I can't control, which is me, I can't control the other person. So I have to control me. And so you took the step, you start improving. But even going through that even taking these courses, learning all these things, learning all these certifications and degrees, or whatever is you still were having bad relationships.
Lily Walford: 26:42
And that was tough. You know, I basically had a year where I absolutely killed myself through that year. Like, you know, in terms of like working a full time job, launching a business also had an operate, I can keyhole surgery on my shoulder. It was freaking crazy. Like, I was like, sitting there with a sling trying to do my business with just like, you know, tapping on the keys. You know, I worked so bloody hard. And I remember, you know, getting to the end of that year. And having one of those moments where it was like, What did I just do all this foot? And it was probably like one of the hardest, hardest moments? You know, everyone thinks that personal development and going into your vision is this thing of like, oh, yeah, it just keeps going up and up and up. No, no, no, we have the highs and we've got we have the lows. And or just remember that low thinking, oh my gosh, is that is this all there is or why has done all this for just this? And Akash? Yeah, like even something that played into that. And I was doing my public speaking on the public speaking course. And I was telling, I was telling the, you know, telling my story, and I was getting the feedback at the end. And usually like, you know, you have professional speakers, they have the big problem and the bad story and all this all these different things. And at the end of this it's like the turnouts me said I'm I'm not getting the payoff. You know, you went all through this stuff, like give us the payoff. What's so amazing now and I just remember thinking that, yeah, yeah, you're right. Like, Where's where's my payoff? I hadn't quite years always like I was telling the story, whilst I was still in it, and I hadn't got to that amazing place where I am now, you know, which is in a fantastic relationship. We live in a beautiful barn conversion, we've got a gorgeous Collie route in the countryside. It's just freaky, and we both self employed me both support and help people and we have this amazing, yeah, amazing connection. We just love things like psychology, and we just geek out on stuff all the time. It's freaking fantastic. And it was like, because I didn't quite have that and try and tell my story from that kind of place. It just didn't. It just did not work.
Stephen Box: 29:11
Yeah, it's, it can be difficult to tell people. Like your story when the payoff is theoretical. Right. Right.
Lily Walford: 29:23
Coach, and everything's fine. Yay. It was like y'all, I was just not enough place to say, you know, it wasn't to say that my life hadn't improved by that point. It definitely had. But it wasn't it wasn't at the place where it needed to be to be that kind of like that inspiration. Like, look, I've managed to get to a place where I want to be now. Yeah, it was kind of like I still caught up in the wind.
Stephen Box: 29:49
It's interesting. I'm glad you brought this up, because this is actually really common. I do professional speaking as well. And so I also hear this kind of feedback all the time. And the thing about it is in that environment is the expectation. It's what you're going to get hold. But the reality is in bringing that back to life, I think sometimes we get too caught up in I have to have that big moment or I haven't made it. And it's so important to celebrate the progress the process of it all.
Lily Walford: 30:24
Yes. And I think this is the this is the thing, isn't it? It's like, personal development is not just about the goal of, you know, getting everything that you want. It's the journey of becoming, I think that was something that I really needed to learn. Because, you know, one thing I totally forgot the very beginning of my journey, I had horrendous social anxiety to the point where, and this is cringy. And thinking back, but to the point where when I went to go and greet the person who was like hosting courses, greeting everyone giving everyone a main badge, and then the people going into the room to go and get chair. I had to walk a mile in London, I was a freaking mess, like literally full on anxiety, almost having this mean I hyperventilating. And you know, as person at the end of this hallway is trying to say hello to me and pass me a badge, I wasn't even in a place to be able to speak, I was able to say, thank you. And that was it just run off into the other room. By the end of the year, I was able to speak in a roomful of people, I was able to help people over eight, I was actually help corporate executives at the end of that year to be able to do public speaking and improve them presentations. You know, it's like, I think sometimes we can be so ungrateful for our journeys, and that level of becoming an owning that story in that way. Because one thing I've noticed is society, friends, family, colleagues, they love the people to play at small. And there's this I don't know if you've ever heard of like the crab pot metaphor or mentality. So
Stephen Box: 32:11
perhaps, I probably heard the American version. Talk about crabs in America, we have the crabs in the barrel, which I'm going to assume is probably similar.
Lily Walford: 32:27
To barrel, we've got like a bowl or bucket or basically you put, you put crab in a bucket on its own, or a bowl or whatever it might be, and it will climb straight down. You put two in, they will keep each other in both. So stopping to contrast the climate or drag it back in. And that's exactly what people do in society. Like I remember saying, I'm about to start a business, it's almost like you get this thing of like, Oh, bless you. I hope it goes well for you. And it's not me when it's not like oh, that's fantastic, or you know, is there's no real belief behind it. And it's all these different things to be able to keep you back into society and keeping you playing small because people know how to deal with you then if you suddenly grow change, or do people need to readapt on the way that they treat you because our identity dictates our standards and our expectations. And when we start playing with our standards and expectations, it changes our reality and our life, which then feeds back into our identity. So people have to relearn the way that they actually start to treat us and interact with us, which is really interesting.
Stephen Box: 33:47
Yeah, I saw something actually on Facebook yesterday. And I don't completely agree with the idea because I think anytime you start talking in absolutes, there's a danger there. Because there's always a time and place for things but I like the overall idea of what it was expressing which was the problem of putting other people first is that you teach them that you always come second Oh, and I think that kind of ties in really well with what you were just saying. Like I said there are times you should put other people first there are times you should put people above you. So I don't like it's absolute idea of you should never put anybody else first. But there's absolutely times you need to put yourself first and but you should never teach other people but you second
Lily Walford: 34:32
totally agree with that. Totally agree and it kind of Yeah, it kind of filters into like the levels of love and I don't know if you've ever heard heard of this before, but there's four levels of love. And number one is this thing of you know, people who just tend to take so they can receive love but they're unable to give and you've got like the narcissist alcoholics you know those kinds of people who are so self obsessed orbed they're unable to be able to empathize or think of other people, then you've got transactional love, I will do this if you do that. So you end up hearing, for example, a lot of couples kind of falling into this into this habit of, although firmer, if I do this, you do that. But you do the dishwasher tonight, because I've already done this or wherever it might be. And it becomes into this like transactional battle, then you have unconditional love, where it's being able to just give love because she wants to be able to do it. And then I can't remember what the last one's called. But it's kind of like the guru love. It's kind of like Tony Robbins, Mother Teresa, you know, people are able to love everyone and anything, and it doesn't really matter what they've done or what the story is, or anything like that. Yeah, so I'd love to hear how many people you know how people get to that. But yeah, if you get to level three and during good. So it's kind of like going a little bit into into that, you know, you know, I think a lot of that depends on where you're at as well and your journey, and also the people that you're dealing with as well, because you don't want to be able to put someone first who doesn't have your best interests at heart as well. So, you know, for example, if you're constantly putting a narcissist first, well, that's just going to be the energy vampire, that's just gonna suck you dry. You know, you don't want to be like this transactional. But sometimes you have to think about your boundaries, and the way that you look after yourself. So yeah, I know what you mean, with the absolute things. There's always some sort of gray area,
Stephen Box: 36:41
there's always gray area. I like I like life in the middle, the middle is good.
Lily Walford: 36:47
You know what, that was something I always struggled with, before getting into, into personal development. I was so like, you know, black or white, it's either good or bad. And all of a sudden realizing there's a middle bit. That was freaking ironing for me. And I think one thing that really opened up for me, it was something that Chase said that surround, see the suffering first. So it's almost like whatever situation you you're in, if you're struggling with a situation or struggling to see that black or white, it's kind of understanding like, what's the suffering that's have to have the have to happen for this scenario to take place or for this person to act in this way? Yeah. And it seriously helps with the whole, like seeing things in a whole different view and the level of compassion that you can give a situation.
Stephen Box: 37:39
And I wouldn't even go to so far as to say apply that to yourself, right? Because sometimes I think we maybe overlook just how traumatic things really are in our lives, we, we deal with them. And in the moment, they might feel traumatic. But as we get further away from them, they're less traumatic, they just kind of become something we dealt with. But we don't understand the deep emotional scars that that's actually left on us. So for example, if we kind of fast forward into your story a little bit. Now, this may or may not have happened to you. But I know this is a common scenario. Even once you kind of learned all this stuff, you realize what's going on, you're in a better place. There still that moment when you got into that better relationship, where your guard is up just a little bit where like you start to question if all this stuff that you've learned is actually going to work is really going to be the one that all comes from those emotional scars that those past relationships.
Lily Walford: 38:43
Yeah, the funny thing is actually first sort of going back. So before we did all the work and I went into my first relationship after after the police officer Oh, my God was completely up to the point where if I went into you know, the the new guys flat, it will be like looking at okay, how's the door change? Where's the key is if I need to get out? How do I get out? You know, that's kind of where the mindset was. But I must admit with the partner that I have now, and I didn't really go through any of that, which was beautiful. And the reason I think that is because did it also do like a crazy amount of training with Chase? Fire, I could see the truth. And it was one of the first it was one of the first times where I could actually fully be human with someone. And I know it's like a really interesting thing to say be human was someone but when you've got someone who is basically saying that they've got your best interests at heart and they really love you. And you can see through their body language that they're being completely open completely truthful. And not only are they saying that you can see that they're being true through that body language when we're talking about reading body language better than a polygraph machine. There's no escaping from telling the truth. But the other element is as well, also seeing the actions back up the words. And I don't think like I've ever been through something so powerful in my life before. Like, I remember the first time he said the words, I love you. And like, literally, I can feel like goosebumps just like going up my office even after all this time.
Stephen Box: 40:38
I can see like lighting up right now as we speak.
Lily Walford: 40:41
And it was like, wow, this is kind of like real. He's actually meaning this. He's actually being truthful to this. And it just felt like, I could just breathe. That's like the best day I can kind of say, and I like being in that place. It's almost like, it's quite funny. Actually, we're having this conversation the other day, we're like, saying, Okay, what is what's love and a relationship? And the term that we kind of agreed, we both agreed on was it's creating an emotional sanctuary where we can both come back to knowing no matter what's happening, whether it's an argument, or anything external happening, or whatever's going on, that we know we're safe, we're secure, and we're loved. And, yeah, I think that is like, the difference between that you know, the conditional love where it's like, I'll love you if you're good to me. Versus if I love you, I'm with you no matter what. And yeah, I don't think I could ever explain that in research fully. But it feels freakin amazing.
Stephen Box: 41:57
Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. No, I shared with you that when I was launching the podcast, my mom, he came to live with us. And after she had to have her surgery, and you know, anyone who's ever had a parent come and live with them for any period of time knows how stressful that can be, especially on a marriage. And, you know, my wife, she's had things with her parents in the past. And we've always just supported each other. There's never been like an issue. There's never been any questions asked. There's no begging or pleading or anything like that. It's just this unconditional support. Yeah. And I think the moment that I kind of realized what you're describing, is when the person says to you, hey, I appreciate you doing this for me. And your thoughts is not well, yeah, you know, I did that because you did this or this. Like, there wasn't some like sense of obligation or like, oh, I had to do it or whatever. It was this genuine idea of what else would I even do? Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, it's the best feeling. Yeah,
Lily Walford: 43:09
I think. Yeah, cuz it's just sounds like you've hit that beautiful, like unconditional love space, which I don't think many people genuinely have in their relationships. Because even when I turn around to, you know, people I speak to, it's like, okay, look around how many people have the relationship that you would actually desire? I think a lot of people are stuck in that conditional place. I think it's freaking awesome that you found that unconditional, euphoric kind of love, which is freakin amazing.
Stephen Box: 43:42
It is. I like the fact that you just pointed out something else to that. Everyone has people around them. They're in relationships, they might look like healthy relationships from afar, but they're really not. But if that's what you're surrounded by, you think that's normal?
Lily Walford: 44:06
So the interesting thing, with, with relationships, what I had to learn with narcissistic relationships, because I remember thinking, like, you know, why did I ended up in a narcissistic relationship or a bad relationship? It doesn't matter if it's narcissistic, or just unhealthy or wrong or whatever. But it made me wonder, okay, why do I end up in those types of relationships? I had a great childhood, great IQ, you know, all these different things, as a few different elements at play. So number one, the main one I could say has about 70% of influence my relationships is our childhood now identity as we grew up as a child, because between the ages of zero and seven, that's where we actually create our identity is the way that we get, we teach people so we learn how we get treated by people. The way that we interact with the world and the reality that we create. So, for example, in this vicinity influences relationships, business career success, something called motivation, intelligence, which is actually behind the reason people are successful or not. And it's simple. You know, it's about the level of parenting that goes into building that child up. So for example, if that child spilled a glass of milk or something like that, and that parent grows up on their feet, are you done Are you silly thing when you notice this big old deal, all of a sudden, this child's in a dialogue going, Oh, I'm so stupid, I spelt this, I'm always doing that. And it creates that identity. So you kind of almost automatically got a victim identity we've got and the vagal nervous system like tripping at the mouth in that moment, which means that they're not able to be a problem solver in that because when we're there, in a trauma state, our focus is to stay safe, rather than being able to think big and to be able to solve issues. And, you know, we create that identity of okay, well, I've I need to be the person who knocks over stuff does things wrong all the time, because that's my place within society or relationships, versus you know, knock a glass of milk over or whatever, as a kid, and the parents go Oopsy daisy, nevermind, let's crank out another glass, right, we'll just move it further back just a little bit. So you can't knock it again, mine was cleaned up. And it's completely different things. So even this has a huge impact on the success of someone. So when we think of roles, there's things like the victim, wherever we go, if a child knocks over, you know, knocks over glass or they hurt their knee, they need that reassurance is a big, you know, massive thing of all you've done something wrong, okay? And, you know, babying them and all the rest of it, they end up being babied, as, as, as adults. So whether that's a work scenario, and you hear them telling like Jeremy Kyle clinic or Jerry Springer kind of story in the office, so you have them going into bad relationships, or you have people like the people pleaser, so the child tries to please their parents all the time. And they end up going into careers where they have to go and people please, to go and get that attention. So we usually have a lot of people who tend to be nurses who are people pleasers, because they love to be able to care and look after people because that's the way that they give and receive love. And again, when they go into relationships, they can end up going into relationships, where it's constantly being taken, and taken for granted. So it's like all these different things from childhood that can influence these types of relationships, and the relationships that people enter.
Stephen Box: 47:51
Interesting. You, you probably just made it a lot of parents out there read like, what do I do? What do I do in the kid next thing, oh, God, I don't know what to do now.
Lily Walford: 48:02
To know, the beat, you know, the beauty is like, remember, like a friend of mine who's a coach, she per post on Facebook recently, around, the best thing you can do for your child when you know when they turn 18 is have an investment Investment Fund for a therapist, I'm thinking yes through because it doesn't matter what you do as a parent, you're still gonna muck up somehow. But what I can say is in terms of identity, build them up to be a problem solver. Yeah. And also just give love unconditionally. Because when we give it conditionally, like, Oh, you've done a good thing cool, I'm going to give you this attention and give you this love and give you this praise. You know, that's what they're going to be seeking in their jobs or careers, relationships and everything.
Stephen Box: 48:53
So I want to go back to your story really quick for a minute or two here. You talked about, you know, the first set of skills that you want to develop was taking all these courses. And obviously the action for that was, you know, the studying the late nights doing all the things you had to do working with sling on and everything else right now. That was your action that was your commitment to building those skills. And I think something a lot of people maybe overlook when they're looking at a framework like this, they think the framework is supposed to be this one time thing, right? Like no no, no, no, you you get to the vision you realize that wasn't quite a you come up with a new vision, new skills, new actions, you keep doing the process over and over to eventually get where you really want to be right. So for you once you get into this relationship that you're in now and you're healthy relationship, were there new skills that you actually had to learn once you were inside that relationship? Yeah.
Lily Walford: 49:56
It was beautiful. It was rainbows, butterflies and lollipops. Oh, no, it's always like, you know, you know, when you have like, you think you kind the whole mountain and you realize you're only at Basecamp it's kind of like, that's how I see personal development. It's like you're constantly going to the next camp, you know, you reach the summit when you're dead. You know, it's kind of that kind of journey. Yeah. And so when we enter the relationship, luckily, we're like, super self aware, both into you know, psychology, body language, profiling, all these different things. So the first, gosh, this is so funny, that the first year of our relationship, it was almost like if we ever had a disagreement as a first relationship, actually, every time we had a disagreement, we, we would actually end up being stronger in our relationship than weaker, which was super, like super new to me. Because before it was like, oh, yeah, got to bed angry, and all these different things that's like, oh, but we ended up having conversations to the point where it's like, okay, have the argument, you know, which is a complete freakin mess, then there would be like, the coach perspective of that argument. So we'll come back together have a sit down. Right. Okay. So, so what did we notice? dissecting it from this level of a coach? Then it was like, okay, the behavioral profiling, literally going through, okay, what are the needs? What are the fears of that conversation? Then it was like, you know, reading into the body language, and then it was like, Okay, well, what's the outcome? What's the best way to move forward in those scenarios? What could we have done better? What could we what did we both need, and it was like dissecting this thing into something that was just absolutely insane. But funnily enough, it's now the body of my research when it comes to developing and creating healthy relationships. So, you know, we're constantly learning, we never have everything 110% figured out. But so we can definitely get the majority of it figured out. And one thing that I had to really learn and understand, I think, and this is what I kind of created, like in terms of the four C's framework of a healthy relationship, and that's compatibility, consideration, communication, probably the most important one, and the hardest one to get right is collaboration. And the reason I say collaboration is the hardest one to get right, is because you've got two individuals who need to be accountable for themselves, their emotions, their actions, their lives, their independence, their happiness, all these different things before they're actually in a place to be able to collaborate with. Yeah, and the reason I say that is because each individual, their strengths, individual strengths, and individual weaknesses, will be the strengths and weaknesses of the relationship. Yeah, so if you've got one that's not great at finances, guess what impacts the relationship. If you've got one, you know, highly emotional all over the place, I won't tell you which one that is my partner, and I, you know, that will actually damage you know, the relationships that be the weakness in the relationship. So in that accountable for your own, you know, your own actions, words, emotions, all these different things. So you're able to be in that place to collaborate and build the relationship. Because if you've got someone who, and I see you've got a niggle in the relationship, like, Oh, I really dislike it any call me X, Y, Zed, or there's this thing going wrong, or whatever it might be, and the person goes, What are you talking about, you know, way to be able to collaborate. And also, if you've got person who can't look after themselves completely as an individual, before they even come to the relationship, that's when you're going to bleed the relationship dry, there's going to be no respect there. And also, there's going to be a lack of equal, you know, being equals in the relationship. So when you have two people who aren't equals in a relationship, rather than having an awesome, you know, partnership with great pet chemistry and passion, you have a parent child relationship, whereas the person who feels like they need to be responsible for the whole relationship, which ends up in a codependent pattern. But yeah, that was kind of like quite a good tangent. So the short answer is yes. You ended up learning lots after it was
Stephen Box: 54:43
interesting to you. Can you hit on something that I think a lot of people, especially people who are are the givers they struggle with, because initially, they're doing things out of love. And so they actually think it's kind of Cute that the other person needs them to do stuff right? Then at some point, you start to feel like it's transactional. Like now there's an expectation that you do it and now is no longer something you're doing because you want to, it's now something that's expected of you from the other person. Yeah. And you're not able to sit back and be like, I created this situation, instead, you just get mad at the person for never be able to do anything on their own. And now you will end up with a resentment.
Lily Walford: 55:30
Yeah. And you know what that's happened to like, yeah, that's a genuine thing that comes up in so many, so many relationships. And I think it's even been highlighted to a lot of people through COVID. And lockdown in particular, the amount of breakups and things I've seen over COVID has been horrendous. And it's because of this main thing. And the thing that we need from people in order to stop growing into that place, we take someone for granted his space. But what we tend to do, especially when we're stuck in a building with someone, is instead of going okay, having space having individual time hits, hey, do you love me, hey, I'm definitely do this for you. And it's, it's this cleaners rather than this. Yeah, ability to have space, which creates desire, which creates appreciation. And those things really helped keep that relationship moving in a positive direction.
Stephen Box: 56:29
Yeah, and I know, we all speak, you know, different love languages. So if you're a giver, and the other person, that's not their thing, their thing is like something else all together. They don't appreciate your giving, because that's not their language. And they're trying to give you whatever their language is the way they communicate love, but you're not appreciating it, because you want them to give. And so it's a situation where like, people aren't communicating. And that's it goes back to what she said, the communication of that is so important. If you don't collaborate and get on the same page, and understand each other's needs. It's, it's not gonna work.
Lily Walford: 57:07
Yeah, I think one thing that my partner and I sort of introduced was, you know, a weekly review, as cringe worthy as it sounds, but it's freaking awesome. Because you kind of go through together, the things that you've appreciated the most about that week from each other things that you feel like you can improve on, and the things that you're looking forward to on the following week. And also, what it helps you do is it helps you to plan that quality time. Because, you know, life gets in the way sometimes, and it's so easy to put ourselves at the bottom of the heap of everything. And when we put ourselves at the bottom of the heap, it usually means that we put our relationships at the bottom of the heap too.
Stephen Box: 57:55
So real quick, I know we did promise people earlier that you were going to talk to them about how to get a free download from you. So first of all, tell us a little bit about the download itself. Like what what are they actually going to get when they when they download this, and then maybe give us a sneak peek give us one or two of those red flags that people need to look out for to
Lily Walford: 58:14
love that. Yes. So this guide, it's 15 pages, like I put so much into this that you're going to get so much out of it. So it's 15 pages that goes into my exact tactics on how to go ahead and meet the one who you're going to be compatible with to have a long lasting relationships, that's whether you want to meet them online, or meet them offline. So you go through the compatibility matrix, which helps you to have that long term relationship. But the other thing that I've put in there is the red flags that you need to look out for to avoid the wrong ones. So a couple of those red flags, because there's seven in there. So if you want to check them all out, you'd go and download the guide. But the two main ones that can be really, really good to account for is look out for something called the lack of empathy. Now, empathy is what we actually express on our face, for example. So if we feel sad, we go look sad, if we feel happy, we're gonna look happy. So look out for that empathy within people's pictures within people's when they when they have a conversation with you. And also if there's not a genuine, if there's not genuine empathy. So the way we know empathy is genuine or not, is that the motion will actually slowly slip off the face versus slip off the page really quickly. So for example, something that's not genuine is if you see someone that you don't like or passing they look at you and you smile and you wave and then the scissor turn their head, they're like, go for that, you know, they're not looking at me. That drop off the face shows it is disingenuous. So narcissists tend to show dissing genuine emotions, and then the other one, which is super important and this was taken, taken from some research from a guy called Gavin de Becker, who was head of security for the White House. And he knew lots about different toxic personality types. It's really simple. It's watch out for the person who can't take no for an answer. So if the if it's something like, you know, you turn around said, I can't go on a date tonight, and they say, No, I'm still want to see you. If they can't respect your decision, or you know, the fact that you've turned around and said, I can't go on a day, whatever it might be. That's a huge red flag. So watch out for the person who can't take no for an answer. And then for the other five, where you have to download the guide to go and check out the rest.
Stephen Box: 1:00:47
There, and there's your ethical media.
Lily Walford: 1:00:53
I know it's easy, so it's definitely worth it.
Stephen Box: 1:00:57
I'm going to go and put this on the screen for those who are actually watching on YouTube. But for those who might be listening, it will be in the show notes. But if you want to go ahead and just tell them what the website is also,
Lily Walford: 1:01:09
close the can so it's love with intelligence and the guide is that love with intelligence.com forward slash meet is a hyphen, those little things meet the hyphen, one, there we go.
Stephen Box: 1:01:23
I even dash I don't know
Lily Walford: 1:01:26
where it's a little little just Yeah, line thing.
Stephen Box: 1:01:31
There's a line that comes midway between the words that's this, that's what we're describing. But those are
Lily Walford: 1:01:39
Stephen Box: 1:01:42
we, we have we have someone who speaks the Queen's English and someone who speaks American English and neither one of us know what to call this so
Lily Walford: 1:01:55
it's a little like horizontal line. There we go.
Stephen Box: 1:02:01
Love it. Lily, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your story with us. If someone wants to contact you, other than downloading the free guide, what's the best way for them to do that?
Lily Walford: 1:02:14
Yeah, um, so check out the website so that has my email address there or you can contact me directly and that's Lily says owl I have that ay y dot Warford which is W al FLR D love with intelligence.com
Stephen Box: 1:02:33
Alright, and I will also include it in the show notes as well. So thank you again for coming on. And just a reminder for everyone that you are not made to be average. You are made to be more so go out and be unshakable.
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